Cllr Ray Bryan, Portfolio Holder for Highways, Travel and Environment at Dorset Council has released a statement today on the temporary railings due to be installed on Weymouth Harbour.
The temporary railings proposed for Weymouth Harbour are just one part of a range of public realm improvements to Custom House Quay which we consulted on between 13 January and 24 February this year. The addition of temporary railings was included following advice from the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) to ensure that we adequately protected people from falling in the harbour.
Highways officers are due to begin installation of the temporary safety railings this Thursday, 8 April, which will stay in place until after the summer season. Then, we will seek feedback from residents and users of the harbour on how these improvements may be made to balance safety with all uses of the Custom House Quay area.
We will ensure all residents and users of the harbour will have an opportunity to have their say and will continue to liaise with the HSE on any further proposals.
Over the last decade we are aware of three fatalities and at least 11 incidents of people accidentally falling into the harbour, most recently in January this year. We have a duty to ensure we have measures in place to prevent future accidents.
The Harbours Committee, as duty holders, were briefed on these discussions with the HSE at the previous two committee meetings and advised that the space would be continually risk assessed as the Custom House Quay area was developed.
An agreed 72 hour pause to the installation of the railings ends tomorrow, so work to start the installation of the temporary railings will begin on Thursday 8 April, ahead of the expected increase in visitors. Alternative seating along the harbour will be provided as part of the scheme.”
Eminently sensible proposals and for good reason.
The simple pleasure of sitting on the harbour wall to eat our fish and chips will be taken away. It may not seem important to you but for many it’s one of our charming Weymouth rituals we look forward to. I’m sure there are many regular visitors to Weymouth who look forward to doing the same.
See they have started work. Even uglier than anticipated. Also badly positioned and ineffective.
I’m told that the railings to be installed now are galvanised “kee-clamp” railings which (if railings are to be retained) will be replaced with ones like those currently in place on the raised fishdock and the rebuilt harbour wall.
Not impressed with your improvement, this useless councilor has taken away the parking for disabled people and the railings are horrible and not safe
I am very disappointed with the lack of foresight by our council, if these railing were necessary because of ‘health and safety’ then why not put them on the water side of the wall. People are already sitting on the wall the wrong side of the railings where they are far more likely to fall in the water.
Please don’t mollycoddle the public, we have far more common sense than our council.
The railings are on the road side of the wall so that boats and other vessels can continue to moor up unimpeded by the barriers.
This is nonsense.In life there are areas where one has to be cautious .Restricting and herding people into bounded regions for presumed safety reasons is all very well but there has to be a balance of common enjoyment and ‘freedom’.Who is to say the inane will not end up jumping off these barriers.
Many other countries ,for those who travel,seem to manage without these impositions and besides what of the tourist attractions,along the coast where jumping off cliffs is encouraged.Will they be fencing these sites?
For the majority common sense will prevail and legislation shouldn’t be constantly used to inhibit their freedom.
Your right crabbing with the kids, a few beers with the family whilst sitting on the wall all taken away with no public consultation.
Listen to what the people that use the harbour wall say… they don’t want railings… so far over 3000 signatures on the petition tell you that. “we consulted on between 13 January and 24 February” really? I wasn’t consulted !!
And who’s paying for all the work and maintenance and where’s all the alternative seating going to go, on sky hooks?
Dorset council and H&S have shot themselves in the foot .. people will just sit on the top or struggle to get under.. more accidents!!
If you have an Authority, that holds important meetings and does not keep minutes then you have the clearest sign that something is Rotten in that Body Contact the Local Govt Minister and ask for a Commissioner to be appointed to run the Body and then Demand a Public Inquiry.
You can never remove all risk of a very small number of people doing stupid things like falling into a harbour. It is easy to put up ineffective barriers and pretend that you have ‘done something about it’ even when your action has reduced the pleasure for all the other people. Hiding behind the HSE is no excuse for such an appalling disregard for the expressed opinion of local people.
I believe this is another case of health and safety gone mad! Where are the statistics for deaths in the harbour due to falling from the harbourside? I can recall only two in many years.
Compare with people who die falling off a pavement, should all pavements have railings?
This is just fear of litigation!
Wasn’t the work originally due to start today, 6th April? How does a 72 hours’ pause end tomorrow – less than 24 hours later?
Indeed you are correct! As for DC, You really couldn’t make it up if you tried!
How come Dorset CC believe the risk to pedestrians ceases after the summer? In January there was an incident where a person accidently fell into the harbour. If these railings are required for H&S reasons then they should be in place for 12 months of the year.
The 72 hr pause was agreed on Sunday.
In which case its gets even better to think that DC were working on Easter Sunday!
You have to laugh!!
I’m not sure why this is funny? Lots of council staff were working on Easter Sunday.
In which case can you publish a copy of the meeting minutes and who was in attendance?
If any meetings took place, I am not aware of who was in attendance and not all council meetings have minutes taken. We had members of staff from Regulatory Services, Facilities, Waste, Emergency Planning, Highways and Parking Services working together with our Local Resilience partners to try and keep visitors and residents safe and able to enjoy the whole of the Dorset Council area over the Easter bank holiday. Enjoy your day.
Seems odd: the first 48 hours of a 72 hours’ pause occurred before the work was even due to start?
Perhaps the citizens of Weymouth might be “allowed” to make alternative suggestions? It seems to me that so called improvements are pushed through with little or no consultation, such as ripping up the historic rail track recently at huge public cost, although tarmac or concrete poured into the gaps would have given the same result at a fraction of the cost! How about strategically placed safety nets above the water line? Just a thought……
I love Weymouth but it’s being changed so much that it will lose its identity.
Please advise one valid reason why the railings cannot be placed on top of the outer (water) side of the wall?
If for safety reasons, this will meet the objective.
Hi Darren, the proposal for railings being placed on the inside edge of the wall is the preferred location by the working harbour Fishermen.
If the railings were on the outer side of the harbour wall the fishermen would have to thread their ropes through the railings, making it more difficult to fasten their boats to the mooring bollards in the existing footway. Fishermen also unload some of their equipment onto the top of the wall. Putting the rail on the outside would make unloading and access more difficult for them.
It is a very difficult balance between the needs of the working harbour and it also being an area for visitors. The basics of this proposal is about preservation of people’s lives as advised by the Health and Safety Executive.
I think it’s a good idea provided the railings are placed on the outer part of the wall thus allowing people to still sit on it. Sitting on the harbour wall is undeniably a Weymouth tradition for both locals and tourists.
Unfortunately to place the railings on the outer edge of the wall would inhibit the fishermen. Alternative seating is being provided as part of the scheme.
The fishermen only uise a small part of the harbour wall area. Place the railings inside for them in the areas they use and on the outside for the rest of us. There was NO consultation for the general public on this issue and it was clearly stated it was in addition to the recent harbourside consultation.
Can we see the advice Cllr Bryan received from the HSE? I suspect the advice was not to install railings but to complete a suitable risk assessment. My experience is that HSE don’t give advice, other than; have you undertaken a risk assessment! I would also suggest that 10 incidents and 3 deaths over 10 years is small especially compared with the numbers using the quay. I would challenge that garden walls and road traffic accidents have a greater incident rate if you look purely at the numbers! What about the likelihood of people leaning on them! My reaction is that people are inherently more careful where there is no protection. So, let’s see this risk assessment and trust is considers any incident in the mix with walkways set back, plenty of safety signage and emergency procedures detailed.
They may be temporary railings, but experience tells me they’re going to be difficulty to remove without the ten-year data to compare with!
You are most welcome to submit a Freedom of Information request on this.
Forgive me I’ve no idea how to! Happy to try.
It seems you have some authority? Who might you represent?
It is now in the Public Domain that the HSE did not stipulate a requirement for DC to install railings.
Therefore Cllr Bryan has clearly lied to the Tax Payers of Dorset and he needs to resign immediately!
No-one has lied John. At no point has anyone at Dorset Council said that the HSE told us to specifically install barriers – that’s not their role. What the HSE Inspector did say was “it is my expectation that the assessment should identify the need for further edge protection, or clear justification for not doing so.” In this instance, the edge protection agreed upon by Dorset Council Health and Safety Officers was the installation of safety barriers.
Local feelings on this are running very high. These mass railings are a totally unnecessary imposition on the character of the Harbour, and will change the ambiance and public enjoyment drastically. People don’t need “protection” from falling in the water – there has been an “unfenced” quayside here for well over 800 years. I note that these railings are being installed under Health and Safety regulations. I can see that there may be the need for some barrier protection above where there are pontoons ( ie falling on those structures can/will lead to serious injury/death ) but barriers to “prevent people falling into the water” is just plain nonsense – we must resist this at all costs . Weymouth Councillors do your job and oppose this ! ( there may be a case for challenging/stopping this as a misuse of public funds as a proper risk assessment of fencing off the totality of just this section – and not others – ie Nothe side etc. has not been carried out . .. just a suggestion)
Why was this matter not subject to proper consultation?
Given that DC only published their plans on the website on April 1st with a view to commence work on April 6th, does Dorset Council & Cllr Ray Bryan think that in respect of this issue they have acted in accordance with the Constitution of DC?
“The Council will look to remove barriers between it and town/parish councils and our shared communities so that issues are addressed together. To that end the Leader may enter into protocols and concordats or establish area consultative forums with a focus on local issues.”
If so, then why is it that the leader of the WTC as well as the General Public were not aware of the plans?
In respect of the HSE rationale, then why are there no plans to install fencing around the entire perimeter of the harbour?
Why is this only being applied to Weymouth Harbour and not Poole Quay or other similar locations?
Good point!
I read lots of complaints about this but not one addresses the question of the three fatalities in 10 years. Unless these figures are incorrect it is clearly a situation that cannot be allowed to continue, fun though it is to sit on the wall. How many of the people who are complaining now would still feel the same if the next person to die was their child?
I couldn’t agree more.
Kirstie, I rather thought that your role in Communications at Dorset Council would be to act in an impartial manner by providing answers to legitimate questions from Dorset residents.
I rather think that it is inappropriate to agree or disagree with comments made by your colleagues on this forum.
Now are you able to provide me with answers to my questions or do I need to address the issue to Spencer Flower?
Good morning John, I am impartial and I provide all the answers I can to residents. I have no decision making powers so I have to ask specialist officers for information to make public. The decision to make all the paperwork public, has not been made so I am unable to share, but you have the option to request to see the papers by submitting a freedom of information request, which will be responded to within 20 days. You can do this by emailing foi@dorsetcc.gov.uk
I do not know anyone as a colleague (or otherwise) on this thread, but I do agree that councillors have made an informed decision based on public safety and advice from the HSE, to install the railings which is in the best interests for all users of the harbour. If you feel I have been impartial in any way it is your right to inform Cllr Flower.
Good Morning Kirstie, Thank you for your reply. I am afraid that your comment “I couldn’t agree more.” does not constitute being impartial.
However, all I am seeking is answers to the questions that I have raised in my earlier post. I note that the respective documents have not been made public, which speaks volumes and I will be submitting the FOI request in due course.
As regards contacting Spencer Flower this is to see if he can provide me with answers to my questions?
The action taken to date appears to be in contravention with the constitution of Dorset Council as the Public should have had the opportunity to comment on the proposals as part of a proper consultation, irrespective of whether one supports the proposals or otherwise.
Kirstie, think you mean “partial”. What residents look for from you is impartiality. Not to agree or disagree with comments. How about a diving board on the harbour so if people want to get wet they can do so with style. Only partly said tongue in cheek. Do think that parents need to look after the safety of their children; railings likely to be an open invitation for kids to swing on.
Sadly two deaths including death by misadventure due to drinking too much, Kirstie, and one following a medical emergency – do we ban cars because people drink-drive? No we don’t. So unless your children have been drinking it’s not really an issue – removing free access to a long standing amenity – sitting for free- on a fairly substantial wall without consultation and being economical with the truth regarding the HSE’s advice is though. Also, if you are official DC Comms you can only present the issue from the council’s viewpoint, not agree with people if it fits the narrative. No wonder this has been a PR disaster.
One more point. If this was a stretch of road where there had been 3 fatalities in 10 years everyone would be up in arms for the council to do something about it yet people need to get from A to B . No one needs to sit on a wall.
You have made some valid points. If there had been a proper public consultation DC could have published these sad facts as part of their rationale behind their proposals. At present there are different facts surrounding the actual numbers involved whereas DC would have been able to confirm the exact numbers so as everyone can make an informed decision as to whether or not to support the proposals.
However, I don’t agree with your comment about “Sitting” as we all need to sit down frequently, as I suspect that you do whilst undertaking your job at Dorset Council!
Please, please no railings. Not wanted and certainly not needed.
Perhaps the issue of rubber-soled shoes to visitors and residents in case of lightning strike?
If it is so important to protect the public at all times then the thousands of miles of clifftop coastal walks should be fenced too!
There is less than complete honesty here. I cannot find in the consultation any clear reference to fencing off the harbourside, as distinct from the placing of safety bollards, which is quite another thing. The obvious loss of amenity, the visual impact on what the consultation acknowledges to be a heritage tourist attraction and destruction of a valued recreational facility particularly valued by senior citizens(sitting by the quay and looking over the harbour) arising from fencing of the edge of the quay was not identified.
As the question was not asked, no-one commented upon it.
Not good.
It’s just disingenuous to say that the railings were part of the consultation – there is no mention of railings there.
Similarly referring to these as ‘temporary’ measures – in councilspeak this just means: “put ‘em up quick, then after a few months when feelings have died down, we’ll hope that joe public will just be resigned to them and we’ll quietly let them stay.”
This is a very unfortunate plan. The simple pleasures of people living and visiting Weymouth are being curtailed unnecessarily and, I suspect, at significant cost. Weymouth is a place where people come to enjoy simple pleasures. If these are eroded, visitor numbers will gradually diminish. What next? Sealing off the sea from the beach to prevent any danger of drowning? The health and safety issues are a smoke screen and I suspect that the real plan is to stop people picnicing so that they are more likely to spend more money in the pubs and restaurants along the way.
I agree Ann, but it seems to have gone unnoticed by the council that most of the people picnicking have purchased their coffee, beer, sandwich, fish and chips etc from local businesses, surely they are going to suffer enormously by the railings. Very sad
I agree Nicky – the Council’s assessment is faulty on all counts. No one will actually win. It’s very short sighted and ill conceived.